S5 E1 The Money Stories we never Questioned

The Money Stories We Never Questioned

We’re opening Season 5 by naming the money conversations many of us were taught to avoid — debt, death, and taxes — and gently unpacking how those silences shaped the way we relate to money today.

In this episode, cohosts Arthi and Malika explore how our earliest experiences of money — what was said, what was modelled, and what was never spoken about — quietly become the rules we live by as adults. We talk about family “atmospheres” around money, generational ideas of respectability and safety, and why avoidance often holds more power over us than the numbers themselves.

This conversation isn’t about blame or doing money “right.” It’s about awareness, choice, and creating a calmer, more conscious financial legacy — for ourselves and for those watching us.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why we’re naming Debt, Death, and Taxes (DDT) as the theme for Season 5
• How avoidance keeps money stories powerful and unquestioned
• Childhood financial atmospheres and the silent rules we inherit
• Respectability, stability, and risk aversion across generations
• Scarcity thinking versus security-based decision-making
• The difference between strategic debt and destructive debt
• Reframing taxes as planned participation rather than punishment
• The idea of a living legacy — what we model long before we’re gone
• Adult patterns like overworking, under-earning, and financial avoidance
• The “people like us don’t…” exercise to surface inherited beliefs
• Practical ways to begin updating your money story

This episode is an invitation to pause, reflect, and gently question the stories you’ve been carrying — and to decide which ones still deserve a place in your life.

🎧 The Swan Effect Podcast is proudly sponsored by Old Mutual Wealth, supporting conversations that help us build financial clarity, confidence, and long-term well-being.

If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, share it with someone who might need it, and leave us a review. We’d love to hear your reflections — your messages and comments help shape the conversations we have next.

Thanks for listening!

— Arthi & Malika

Transcript

Sponsor Message: Old Mutual Wealth

Arthi Rabikrisson 0:00

Your legacy isn't just about numbers. It's about the confidence that comes with knowing your wealth is expertly managed. At Old Mutual Wealth, we offer solutions that go beyond investment management. We're your trusted partner in achieving financial success. Together with your financial planner, we uncover what matters most to you. Crafting a personalized plan tailored to your unique goals. Backed by a team dedicated to your wealth journey, we provide innovative strategies, in-depth research, and award-winning investment expertise. Partner with us to take your wealth further with advice-led personalized wealth management, offering clients and financial planners a full suite of industry-leading investment solutions. Visit www.oldmutual.co.za / wealth to learn more. Hi there, I'm Arthi Rabikrisson.

Malika Petersen 1:04

Hello, I'm Malika Peterson.

Arthi Rabikrisson 1:06

Welcome to

Malika Petersen 1:07

the Swan Effect Podcast.

Arthi Rabikrisson 1:09

We're your go-to podcast to simplify the complexities of money management, investing, and wealth management.

Malika Petersen 1:17

So that you can gain confidence in your relationship with money and become financially literate, independent and free.

Arthi Rabikrisson 1:26

That first step towards freedom is knowledge. And you can start regaining that right now by listening to this upcoming episode. Malika and I are so excited to have you join us again on our podcast show, where, as you know, we are on a mission to help you become more confident with your finances. Happy 2026, Malika, and happy new season for our show as well.

Malika Petersen 2:02

Happy 2026, Arthii, and to our wonderful listeners from across the globe. It's so exciting to know that we reach all the corners of the world, which means that these episodes and topics that we've been sharing over many seasons together are relevant no matter where you are in the world. And yes, Arthi, I love that our new season and theme kicks off with whew Our bravest one yet, in my opinion.

Introducing The DDT Theme

Arthi Rabikrisson 2:32

You've said it, Malika. This season, everyone, we're talking about the three topics people avoid at dinner tables, family gatherings, and sometimes even in our own heads. Yet you know what? These topics shape our lives in ways we cannot actually escape it. So our theme for the season is what we're calling DDT. Just like in wrestling, everybody, because as I said, we do wrestle with these, right? And it stands for debt, death, and taxes.

Malika Petersen 3:03

Now, I know, listeners, you're feeling like you're in Harry Potter when you want to say in hush tones about this and you know, not say these words. Like everyone used to say, you shall not be named for Voldemort.

Arthi Rabikrisson 3:18

Yeah, absolutely. But you know, when we don't name it, we actually give it power over us. So all the better to get used to saying it out aloud, everyone, and regularly. Okay, you can say it even with me. Debt, debt, taxes, and then just exhale up to that. But I guess you know what, Malika, if we're being honest, these topics, they aren't just technical or financial, they're actually quite emotional. They're cultural. I would say it's deeply personal, which I guess is also why so many of us struggle to talk about these.

Malika Petersen 3:51

No, no, I think read the nail on the head out there. And for this first episode, I'm excited that we're starting at the root. So before the spreadsheets, before the credit scores, before the numbers, before these state plans, right? We're starting with the stories, the ones that we didn't consciously choose.

Arthi Rabikrisson 4:10

Hmm, and that's why today's episode is so important. Everyone, you know, consider it a little bit of that scene setting before we launch fully into the DDT unpacking. We want to help you surface those subconscious beliefs around debt and taxes and debt. Uh and, you know, for death, we can even call it legacy because it's a little bit of an extension of what we covered about legacy in the last few episodes of season four.

Money moods experienced in childhood

Malika Petersen 4:36

Yeah, I mean, there's so much I want to say to what you've just shared, Arthi, right? Okay, so I think let's take one step at a time. Let's start with financial atmosphere. And and this is a word that we haven't really introduced on our podcast before, right? But I think it's a reality that before we've ever made a financial decision in our lives, anybody, we've absorbed a financial atmosphere or money mood. So I think let me ask the listeners a couple of simple questions. Okay. What was money like in your house growing up, right? And maybe the bigger question is what wasn't said, but it was deeply felt.

Arthi Rabikrisson 5:16

Oh, I love these questions, Malika. I mean, it's actually making me think as well about my own sort of memories around this. And, you know, I think I speak for even our listeners when I say, you know, I think we all at some point can remember whispered conversations like late at night with adults, particularly in the household. I think I remember as a child noticing tone shifts. You know, so you know, for me it was like these tone shifts, then tension, sometimes silence. And then now, if I think back, you know, there's probably a lot of anxiety, maybe some pride, even shame, sense of obligation. And I also remember being told things like, well, "don't ask questions in front of guests", you know, especially on these kind of topics. I guess what I'm saying is you didn't know what was wrong, but you knew that something was wrong.

Silence as a money teacher

Malika Petersen 6:05

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, no one satt you down and explained that to you, right? And said, you know, you were just kind of expected to absorb it and to behave accordingly and to know how to behave, right? Which I mean, uh for me, money going up was always tied to respectability. And when I talk about that, I don't mean wealth. I don't mean abundance, I mean respectability. So so it showed up in things like, you know, you would have nice clothes, but only on special occasions, for example. Or on special occasions, right? We would host guests generously, even if it meant that things might tighten later. And you didn't know it was gonna tighten later, you just felt that it was sight later, right? But but money itself was never discussed in detail, if at all. Um, and debt certainly wasn't explained, it was just felt, right? So both weren't numbers or things on a page, it was energy with attention, as you said.

Arthi Rabikrisson 7:07

Oh yeah, I mean, I'm remembering all these things even as you're just talking about this, and I think this will resonate with so many South African and also other households across the world. Yeah, it was almost like this family secret. I mean, Malika, do you remember hearing phrases like, as long as the bond is paid? Or as long as no one's losing their job, you know? Or even some of the, I mean, there's a whole lot of similar ones like that, you know, and I'm sure our listeners are nodding, just thinking about some of these too.

Silence, Respectability And Stability

Malika Petersen 7:35

No, absolutely, I think. I mean, because stability was the highest virtue to many South Africans, right? That meant a stable job or income. Risk wasn't really encouraged, and curiosity wasn't rewarded when it came to fight finances, right? Embarrassment was about money was an absolute no-no. So, you know, there was almost this unspoken understanding that your family's survival depended on predictability. And if things were predictable, that means you were safe and keeping things under control. You know, what at the time was perhaps needed in many areas, if we just think about South African history IT, with apartheid and gender inequality, you know, people were were craving and looking for safety in the things that they control. You know, but the other side was that while some innovation happened, like stock foul, it was more as a means to circumvent the system of financial exclusion rather than a way to grow forward from a wealth or legacy building perspective.

Arthi Rabikrisson 8:41

You make such a such a great point around that. I'm so glad you mentioned that, Malika. It was definitely a means to an end in terms of managing finances at the time. And I mean, I mean, look about look at taxes. You know, taxes, taxes were just a thing, a thing that happened. It's not something you planned around, not something you questioned, definitely not something you saw as participation in a system of nation building. Yeah. And then this legacy, right? Which again sounds really lofty, but you know, growing up, legacy wasn't framed as something that was values-based or an emotional inheritance. No, it was quite transactional. Um, there was almost this kind of sometimes implicit but oftentimes explicit, in the sense that we were told we've sacrificed, so you have to succeed, you know?

How childhood money stories underlie adulthood decisions

Malika Petersen 9:31

Because I think everyone, we're not sharing these to blame anybody's families, right? I don't think that's the intention. But we also don't want to romanticize the struggles that we experienced. And a lot of those struggles were of the backdrop of macro influences, like about that, like all of those things, right? But I think what we do want it want is to understand the water that we were swimming in as a starting point. Because again, you can't change what you don't name.

Arthi Rabikrisson 10:01

Yeah, it shows up in so many ways later on in life, you know. Think about when you're thinking about taking a little bit of a risk, everybody, in the form of maybe starting a business or wanting to study further, maybe finding different forms of income to earn differently. Um, if that brings about a sense of panic, you now have a better understanding of where that nervous system panic is coming from. Because it feels like you're risking the family's safety, not just your own comfort. And, you know, especially when you feel that you're using your scarce resources to undertake some of these initiatives, it all just comes to a bit of a head for you emotionally.

Scarcity thinking vs Security thinking

Malika Petersen 10:43

I'm so glad that you brought up, you know, because we can segway into the idea of scarcity. And notice I use the word idea. Um, because let's be frank, scarcity comes in two forms. It's it's physically not having enough of something, like money as an example. But then it's also this feeling of scarcity, which is very much a mindset. And I mean, we've spoken about this over the last few seasons. If there was one thing I think that you and I, if we had a magic wand and we could change, it would be the mindset.

Arthi Rabikrisson 11:13

Mindset, for sure. Right.

Malika Petersen 11:15

And when we talk about mindset, I mean the feeling that there will never be enough, no matter what we do, even when there is enough, right? Such as time in the day or, you know, to complete and do our tasks and activities. I mean, I know people who grew up with very little money or or less than most of us, and they don't have scarcity thinking, right? And I know people who grew up relatively materially comfortable, but they're emotionally terrified of loss. And I think scarcity kind of shows up in rules such as don't waste, don't splurge, don't get comfortable. The other day I was out to dinner with my mom, and she was like, No, no, you have to take a doggy bag. Like, it's like, don't feel like walking around with this doggy bag, but but there's a don't waste, right? Yes, yes. And you would even notice that in a restaurant you might opt for a better price prayer girl, you know, than the lobster or the steak that you desperately desire. That gets to be in action, right? I mean, think of the times when you tip a waiter. Do you stick vigilantly to the 10%, even when the service was completely phenomenal? Um, or do you increase it, you know, and that's the reason for this mindset in these cases, it's because generosity feels unsafe.

When thinking about Debt, Death and Taxes triggers fear

Arthi Rabikrisson 12:37

I hear you. I hear you, Malika. Oh my gosh. As I said, you know, it's just flagging so much for me as you're talking because I'm thinking about how did scarcity show up for me. And I guess if I could phrase it, I would say it probably showed up as over preparation in a lot of instances. So that means always needing a backup plan and then another backup plan, and then a backup plan for the backup plan. You know what I mean? That's just like you're overworking, you know, overtime around this. And again, you know, that means we're not resting enough. You know, sometimes it even means that we're choosing to earn less because safety becomes far more important than actually expanding and trying something a little bit riskier, as you said. So, everyone, you know, if you think about that, then what is the opposite of that, right? What is the opposite of scarity? And what comes to mind is what we are calling security thinking instead, or what you may have heard of before as an abundance mindset. And that's where you say, I can handle what comes through. You know, I'm allowed to plan, but I don't need to brace constantly, you know, for the negative or the curveball that's going to be coming. Or it could even be something like, you know, saying to yourself, you know what, there is enough room for this right now. So even that just allows you to ensure that you can move forward, you can gain a bit of ground, you can undertake some of those initiatives that we mentioned earlier. But of course, you know, if you grew up watching adults in the household worrying about bills and political unrest, medical emergencies, even, or where you needed to send money back home, you know, a lot of your earnings going back to wider family. And we know this is so typical of many South Africans and Africans on our continent as well. You know, of course, your nervous system, it's learned that having money equals safety.

Malika Petersen 14:30

And as a result, debt becomes terrifying, right? Even when it could be strategic. And I think this is important to understand. There is strategically positive debts, loans, a student loan, a business loan, a mortgage. You know, there are numbers that might actually make sex, but your body reacts like this is a danger. The minute you hear debt and interest rate, you hear danger. Uh similarly with taxes, taxes become something that people fear instead of something that you plan for. It's something that you avoid opening mail about, right? I mean, tax season, when tax season is announcing South Africa, very many people avoid it until that very last filing date. You know, where the rest of us understand this is an opportunity and we're excited to file. I mean, death, you know, death kind of becomes this unspoken cliff that no one wants to look over. Not because people don't care, but because looking over and facing what's on the other side feels extremely overwhelming.

Arthi Rabikrisson 15:34

Yeah, absolutely, Malika. Okay, I mean, let's get concrete a little bit for our listeners, okay, in terms of how do these inherited stories show up in adulthood? And you might recognize some of this in yourself or with others that you know, or it might at least stimulate you to think about your situation, right? So one of the ways is you tend to overwork. Overwork, but under-earning, right? It could show up in avoidance of financial conversations with partners, which actually, by the way, should happen as soon as you realize the relationship is serious.

Malika Petersen 16:07

Absolutely.

Arthi Rabikrisson 16:08

I can't tell you how many coaching sessions I've had, Malika, when we dig around a little bit, the financial implications of the relationship or the partnership is a conversation that's actually causing a lot of the discomfort. So that that that conversation hasn't happened. And oftentimes I would guide and encourage, you know, my client to actually think about how do you actually start having a conversation with somebody. Because and they'll say straight, say straight up to me, it's scary. It's scary to bring this somebody that that, you know, what if they walk away? You know, because things are getting serious. So it's a reality, everyone. It can show up in terms of guilt. I mean, I think this is a big one. Guilt, especially when we are earning more than our parents ever did. Okay. And with that guilt comes this unspoken responsibility that we need to financially support our family members, even if it puts us under strain. Yeah, we say yes to helping family, even when it could hurt us financially, because actually, if you say no, then that feels like a betrayal.

Malika Petersen 17:11

Yeah. Or on the other hand, we feel shame potentially when we don't make as much as our parents did. Right? I mean, we're living under very different economic realities, but there's always the shame that, you know, they they went through a period of political unrest, yeah, extremities, and they were able to make a living or good living. And if we're not doing as well as they do, we feel shame about that. Alternatively, we we refuse help from others, right? Because independence is prized above all else. Um, there's a lot of pride around money, right? So instead, we take on unnecessary debt and the bad kind of debt. We spoke about the good kind earlier on, but yeah, we take on this unnecessary bad debt, and then we finally, you know, we we just can't afford to support it. We we avoid it um because asking still feels unsafe.

Estate planning for the future and conversations needed around this

Arthi Rabikrisson 18:08

There are people who delay, avoid, uh, panic around debt, as you said earlier, Malika. And, you know, it's not because they owe something, but it's because more of that debt trigger. It triggers that old fears. So everybody, it's actually not going to kind of, you know, the current state where maybe you're looking for balance to help you. It's actually going into your history. It's all about memory and what you what you remember.

Malika Petersen 18:35

It's it's the same with the estate planning. I mean, we talk to so many clients who say, I don't have enough to think about that. I don't need to worry about that because, you know, there isn't enough for me to leave. And number one, firstly, I just want to encourage our listeners. Firstly, that number, you'll be surprised at how much you actually have. A lot of people don't realize that. But also, what people really meant is that thinking about this forces me to confront my own mortality and responsibility in terms of what happens when I'm no longer here, right? And we tend to kind of ignore legacy altogether. I just want to caution our learners though, because legacy isn't just about what you leave behind when you die, it's also about what you model when you're alive. Yeah. And part of that is including, you know, your relationship with money. It's a very important part of it.

Arthi Rabikrisson 19:35

Oh, I love that. I it feels like a bit of a penny drop moment, you know, to come to that kind of understanding that this is role modeling at play.

Malika Petersen 19:43

Yes.

"People like us" reflection exercise, with reframing

Arthi Rabikrisson 19:44

And, you know, I hope, listeners, that you're getting a sense that, you know, almost bringing the mirror to the kind of financial narratives and thinking that have been in place is actually going to be so helpful in getting you towards that legacy building, that role modeling. Model building and actually bettering the relationship that you have with money. So I think it would be lovely to just take a moment for you to slow down. Still beginning of the year. It's nice to have these kind of reflections early on. So I invite you to reflect on a couple of questions, or maybe just even one. A particular sentence I'm going to share with you. And just notice how you finish the sentence. Again, we're not asking you to fix it just yet, but rather notice it. Notice what's coming up for you. So finish this sentence, everyone. But people like us don't. Okay. And you're going to complete the rest of that sentence. And you know, maybe just to give you a couple of examples to get you going, it could sound like people like us don't take risks. People like us don't talk about money. People like us don't get rich. Oof. People like us don't ask for help. And maybe people like us don't leave inheritances. So yeah, just a few examples there. Notice what comes up for you, everyone. And also just notice where you feel this in your body. Okay? It's telling you something.

Malika Petersen 21:11

Yeah. I think, listeners, it's important to understand that these sentences didn't come from nowhere, right? They were taught to you, they were modeled. You absorbed them, right? And it's important for you to, for want of a better word, break the cycle. So in order to do that, let's gently reframe those beliefs, right? So what if those beliefs made sense once but doesn't serve you now? Again, this is very important in the context of South Africa and many countries around the world. You know, we we live in a very different time to what our parents did. So the beliefs that they had may not serve us now. It might just serve them, may not serve us now, right? What if honoring your family's sacrifices doesn't require you repeating their fears? Because again, some of those fears no longer exist. They're not real anymore, and we have to let go of them, right? What if you allow to build a new money story? One that includes calm and clarity and clear intention. So reframing those beliefs or the things that you were taught or modeled or absorbed, it's not about rejecting your past. Embrace your past, understand it, but you do need to level up. And that means that you need to update the rules.

Arthi Rabikrisson 22:34

I love these powerful questions, Malika. Oh my gosh. I feel like you clearly you and I are spending a lot of time together. These are such great coaching questions. I love them. Really, really love them. And, you know, especially this piece about reframing, right? Everybody, you know, once we identify what that narrative is, these reframes that Malika is offering you is basically going to help you shift that mindset. And that's what the season is all about, right? We want to help you reframe your mindset. And we're gonna do that talking about debt, debt, and taxes in a very real, practical way, as you know us to do, right? We'll break it down, we'll bust some myths, and we'll help you navigate these concepts from a place of not scarcity, but actually opportunity and clarity. Okay. And, you know, we before we could do that though, I think we really felt we had to start here, huh, Malika? Absolutely. Yeah, we had to start with the stories that we've inherited. Because every financial decision that you've made so far, that's been shaped by a belief, whether we've named it or not.

Parting Shots: Arthi and Malika

Malika Petersen 23:42

Well said, Arthi. And I think we're at the end of a pretty deep episode. We've confronted so many realities that we kind of face daily and multiple times any day, right? So what are your parting shots today?

Estate Planning And Living Legacy

Arthi Rabikrisson 23:57

Oh, I think it's just what I said a little earlier, which is name the story, everyone. Honor where it came from, but then also decide, you know, do it slowly, do it compassionately, but then decide what do you want to carry forward from that? Okay. And this is the part of the process where you rewrite your story for your present, for your now, and for your future. Here's the thing, you have the choice, okay? So you can choose abundance over scarcity, okay? And that's what we're gonna help you do. How about you, Malika? What's your parting shot?

Malika Petersen 24:30

So I think my parting shot as we enter this new season, season five of the Swan Effect podcast, is that I want to open up ask our listeners to open their minds to what debt taxes and death planning can really mean. Right. Address the shame, deal with the secrecy, you know, separate your self-worth from what you owe. Because when you really consider what debt taxes and death planning can mean, there are so many opportunities and so much potential waiting on the other side.

Arthi Rabikrisson 25:03

I love that. I mean, it's just like what you said earlier, Malika. It's you are allowed, everyone, to update the rules. And of course, you know, you're allowed as well to approach these topics with clarity instead of fear. So, everyone, please just give yourself permission to do that. Be as brave as Harry Potter.

Malika Petersen 25:22

And as bold as Neville.

Thanks for joining us!

Arthi Rabikrisson 25:25

Definitely. Until the next episode, everyone. Ciao for now.

Malika Petersen 25:30

Ciao. Thanks for joining us. We hope you found these ideas and guidance useful.

Arthi Rabikrisson 25:38

We're both seasoned in the investments industry. Malika is at the coal facee of how, where, and why people invest the way they do.

Malika Petersen 25:48

I certainly am. And you, Arthi, you've witnessed different types of investment behaviors around money too. And now work as a global award-winning coach to free us from the mindsets that stop us from becoming financially free.

Swanning out for now!

Arthi Rabikrisson 26:04

Do subscribe, share, and write a review or send us comments. We would love to hear from you.

Malika Petersen 26:10

Catch you on the next episode

Arthi Rabikrisson 26:12

of the Swan Effect Podcast. Bye for now. Ciao!